President Trump, and VP Vance, met with Ukrainian president Zelenskyy, to do a photo op in advance of the parties, signing a deal, giving the US mineral rights in Ukraine, and exchange for our aid to that country. That’s fine.
Zelensky Spoke in front of The president About his need for security, guarantees, etc., which were comments best made behind closed doors.
But what happened after that was astonishing. Trump, Who today didn’t know when the Ukraine war started, and Also, did not know how much aid we had given Ukraine, treated Zelensky with great disrespect in a series of comments.
The bearded sneak JD Vance, then sucker punched Zelensky Questioning his gratitude for the aid already given by the US. ( Zaleski has publicly thanked the US countless times for aid given, including before both sessions of the US Congress )
A few interrelated things are clear now.
One, For the first time in American history, We have a president who does not believe in our military alliances.
Two, We have a president who has no respect for our allies ( Canada, Ukraine, The NATO countries ) But who Has respect for dictators
Three, Our allies cannot count on the United States anymore. At this point, if Russian forces crossed into Estonia, To “liberate “the Russian speakers of Varna, do you think that Trump would do anything about it?
Friedrich Merz, Who will likely soon become the new head of the German government, Said this week that Europe must become independent of the USA, Because, under Trump, the US is “ Largely indifferent to the fate of Europe “.
You can’t really count Any checks and balances to come in to play here within the US system, Because the US Congress is controlled by the Republicans, And almost every Republican congressman and senator is either a Trump supporter or is it afraid of the Trumper mob. Witness how Lindsey Graham turned against Zalensky today.
Trump isn’t wrong on everything, but he is dead wrong on this important thing. He is a danger to the security of the United States, and to that of our friends. God knows what we will see in the next days and weeks.
15 comments:
That was genuinelly shocking, even more so because it was an obvious, contrived ambush. Z ought to have walked out but his mind was probably scrambled.
Trump will soon find himself friendless with that display. Who will pick up the phone or accept an invite if they risk being humiliated? Cutting and running runs both ways. If Trump wants help, say, with China he might be told that he's on his own.
European leaders are shocked but they have only themselves to blame for their predicament. Generations of them have chosen net zero, mass immigration and high welfare policies instead of being grown ups and looking at the world as it is.
As result a continent of 450 million people doesn't even have the industrial capacity to re-arm adequately, even if the leaders had the will to do so. As an example of their cowardice, Germany forced RAF supply flights to Ukraine, prior to the 2022 invasion, to route aroung German airspace. It's so cowardly and supine it's stunning, and such cowardice has left a continent with no options.
https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1895901521545740466
"The nuclear submarine USS Virginia was forced to turn around off the coast of Norway after a refusal to refuel by a private company following the Trump-Zelensky meeting
HB, one of the largest marine fuel companies in Norway says it won’t refuel US Navy vessels from now on"
The HB statement is in the following tweet.
It won't exactly cripple US naval operations but it's a small mark of the ill-feeling sparked by that circus in the Oval office. The MAGA crowd won't care, but nevertheless Trump and Vance have shot the US's reputation to pieces.
Some think that he is a true visionary and others that he is pure evil. Sweet Baby Jesus, I think that he is just incompetent, and we will survive. I remember Nixon and Trump I and the despair, but here I am at age 72 having pork tacos on a Saturday night listening to Miles Davis.
Has anyone in the Trump admin , supposedly seeking peace, simply asked Putin to withdraw his troops , and get out of the sovreign country Ukraine?
https://postimg.cc/4YD7r7JW
Interesting but not shocking take on the incident, Pete what you said in your first comment was accurate. Europe after WWII decided to go a socialist rout and decided it did not need to defend itself. Europe decided it could depend on the US's largess and France & Britain's nuclear umbrella to protect them.
As the years passed this attitude got worse in spite of all the little conflicts that raged. Even after the SU fell and native populations fought among themselves in the freed countries not one European military strengthened it's position, including Britain.
Yet these same nations that stripped themselves of their own defense wielded NATO as if it was their sword instead of what it was supposed to be A Defensive Wall. The best part is they didn't even keep up with their 2% commitment of funding NATO. To this day Germany is still in the rears. As is the majority of the others.
This could be understood if the world had changed after the fall of the SU, and welcomed it into the body of western nations. Established mutual trade with normalized diplomatic relations. None of us did, the US included. We all shunned it, isolated it and it evolved into capitalist thugacracy. Yet now they want to put all the blame and all the burden on the US. We all could have treated the Russia that replaced the SU as an opportunity for developing an ally that has vast resources, we did not. We treated it as europe treated Germany after WWI, except Russia's resources are not as limited as Germanies were after WWI, but the world treated Russia the same as it did Germany politically after WWI.
The major difference is after WWI into WWII Germany expanded to regain resources leading to WWII, today Europe is the one expanding adding more and more territory to itself through the EU and the expansion of NATO, the US has been complicit in this also except we didn't disarm, and never will.
A little history : "Before it was Ukraine, the region played an important role in Eurasian cultural events, including the spread of the Chalcolithic and Bronze Ages, Indo-European migrations, and the domestication of the horse. Slavic tribes settled there after the 4th century, and Kyiv was the chief town. From the 14th to the 18th century, portions of Ukraine were ruled by Lithuania, Poland, and Russia. Additionally, numerous Greek colonies were founded on the northern coast of the Black Sea and the Crimean Peninsula, later coming under the hegemony of the Roman Empire."
Ukraine as ukraine today has been populated by former nazi's and former soviets the government up until Obama's interference was loyal to Russia. The result of flipping that loyalty to the west has been two wars.
This current war was fed by a man with dementia, or whoever was calling the shots for him. It has brought us to the verge of a Nuclear exchange. That can not be allowed to happen. The US and Europe have used the Ukrainian's as cannon fodder to punish an old enemy. It has cost over a million lives.
It is at a point now where one of three things happens. It continues with men from we the western nations. Europe and the US pour our children into it to slug out a conventional War. 2 a Nuclear exchange. 3 Peace. Those are the only options.
The US is NOT going to put boots on the ground and in spite of all their bluster neither are any European nations. No one on either side wants to exchange nukes. It benefits nothing if we are all dead. That is what the result of a nuclear exchange with Russia would end with extinction. MAD is still the only military reality of an exchange between the west and russia, Once it starts it doesn't stop until we are all dead.
That leaves only a negotiated peace and those negotiations are between the US and Russia. Putzenskyy is a nobody, a frontman nothing more. His problem is he believes he is more than that.
This is my view on the presser the other day, if anyone wants to read it.
https://davidvance.net/putzenskyy-sticks-his-head-up-his-ass/
The whole piece is about as long as this comment.
Western Europe has been predominantly capitalist in the post World War II era.
The UK have become much more capitalist over time, After the big privatizations under the Thatcher government.
Countries like Finland, Sweden, Denmark, give their citizens tremendous social benefits, In Economies where private enterprise is very strong, very competitive On the national, European, and global stage.
A good perspective on the situation being faced by Europe is written by John Kass and he also links to an excellent perspective written by his brother that he had published before. It's worth the read.
“Above all, we should understand that the handwriting may well be on the wall and begin now to develop policies that correspond to the emerging realities in Washington, rather than waiting until after the fact.”
The message was important: understand what is truly happening in America. Learn how Trump thinks and speaks, and respond constructively. But they didn’t. They liked left wing smoke smoke pumped up their backsides, and Zelensky played the greedy turnip merchant until he was ushered out of the White House.
Putin is a bad guy. He’s in the wrong. He should not have invaded. The war should not have happened. But Presidents Obama and Biden played stupid, childish games that invited it. They dangled NATO membership in front of Ukraine. It provoked Putin to act. Zelensky would never get into NATO. The Europeans don’t want to be contractually obligated to fight a war. And America won’t fight. I won’t give my sons to die for Zelensky the Fool.
So, who thought Ukraine would win this?
Nobody.
https://johnkassnews.com/zelensky-the-fool/
but they spend nothing of their gdp on defense.... that can no longer be our responsibility financially. Military might cost money. They have spent the money on themselves, some better than others, but this is where that lack of expenditure in military defense is coming home to roost.
With our own internal situation we need to blunt on every level. Trade, Defense, we will no longer carry the weight. Everyone has to carry their share and there really is no need for a million people to die.
Phantom I'd like to hear your thoughts on this (you too of course Pete)
Putin this week proposed a partnership with the United State to develop Russia's rare earth resources, which are vast. They need the investments to develop these resources. Should we pursue this proposal ?
If we ignore it the only other country that has the resources to invest in developing these resources is China and we know they want them.
So do we pass and push the Russians and Chinese together, or do we tie Russia to us economically ?
I say regardless of how the Ukrainian peace works it's self out is this finally the time to end the war between the us and russia ? A real normalization of business and trade between the two countries. Wouldn't combined economical investments of Billions of dollars go further to keeping the peace than anything else. The relationship would mandate it.
If Germany met it's obligation the other NATO countries would follow suit, I know you're a negotiator and a rather good one, but you also know there are different styles of negotiating methods. Me I've never been a Negotiator I was a ramrod, someone who was brought into a situation to fix a problem usually between management and the union.
Norway has refused to fuel our ships, a country that we have an ally treaty with over the fact they don't like our stance with another country that is NOT an ally and that we have no treaty with. Can you point me to any treaty we have with Ukraine ?
Your perspective on a world leader is a funny one. Can you point to where the comedian Putzenskyy has led anything outside of Ukraine or for that matter inside Ukraine ?
So a Country that has no Treaties with anyone, has done nothing for it's neighbors, has led no world wide initiatives on anything the Head of that country who has only a 4% approval rate in his own country he's the world Leader.....
As for Canada... oh well let them take our goods off their shelves, lets see what the US imports from them....
Here is a list of Canadian imports to the US:
Base metals not specified elsewhere, cermets
Mineral Fuels & Oils
Vehicles
Nuclear Reactors
Unprocessed gold
Miscellaneous items made from precious metals
Trucks
Public-transport vehicles
Air conditioners
There is nothing on that list that we don't manufacture ourselves. 60% I believe or around that number of Canada's GDP comes from it's oil exports to the US. What happens to their economy if we replace that import with our own domestic growth in Oil production ?
You don't like trumps negotiating style, but it proved effective his first term and is proving so once again this term.
I'm still waiting on your response to the development of Russia's rare earth with the US.
Troll -
I think the supposed expansion of NATO east has been given much too much attention. I say supposed because NATO did not expand by itself. It did so because countries, which know only too well of life under Russian domination, couldn't wait to apply and get under the umbrella.
Putin wrote a lengthy but important essay in 2021, seven months before the full invasion of Ukraine:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181
”On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“
It doesn't mention NATO. It does reveal Putin to be an ultra-nationalist who is obsessed with the restoration of the Russian Empire which encompassed Ukraine, Poland and the Baltic nations. To him the loss of one square inch of what was once that empire constitutes a grievious blow to Russian prestige. Therefore he always intended to bring back in what he regards as an illegitimate, breakaway Ukraine, regardless of NATO's borders.
Putin once famously said that the fall of the Soviet Union was the most catastrophic of post-war events. Many have (wrongly) interpreted this as Putin wanting to rebuild it. Putin is not a communist. What he lamented was Russia's decline in significance globally and its descent into an oligarchic mess. His one mission as President all these years was to restore Russia's empire and global clout.
This is an interesting thread. I have missed these discussions.
Yes, That’s it.
I cannot locate the quote, But years ago, perhaps, at the time that the USSR was breaking apart, I recall reading where Solzhenitsyn I believe was quoted, as saying that it was impossible to think of Ukraine and Russia as separate entities. There was too much common history, too many intermarriages, etc. that they could only be one nation.
So Putin may be entirely wrong in his actions , But he is not the only Russian to feel that Ukraine and Russia can only be a united nation.
Finland and Sweden joined NATO quite recently. These two countries have highly competent militaries, and have huge geographic advantages aspects, Russia. They are both well above the 2% defense threshold – Finland at 2.45%, Sweden at 2.6%.
When the Soviet Union invaded Finland in the years before World War II, much smaller Finland gave the Soviets, a bloody nose. The Finnish rifleman traveled on skis through the forests.
I understand why free nations that were under the Soviet yoke want to be under NATO's but they can not be. They can be full investment and business partners with the rest of the world to guarantee their safety or build their own military defenses. The former being the best. Putzenskyy wanted "Security Guarantees" having American, British, and EU Corporations and countries developing their resources and rebuilding their infrastructure is that guarantee. Russia is not going to attack anywhere where you have 1000s of American/British/EU personnel and Billions of Dollars/Euros in joint investment.
Putin is a scumbag he has always viewed himself as the New Czar, a Czar with kgb killer attitude. What he has also shown is that he can be codified and contained by business development. He himself tried to tie Europe's economy to Russia with the NordStream Pipeline and other fuel supply avenues. He understands the leverage of intermingled supply lines. He's offering the same intermingling of supply line for rare earth with the US.
Putin is only 72yrs old and in good health. The world will have to deal with him for quite awhile.
Intermingling all of our economies and fuel supplies is how you maintain the peace.
Rutin won't attack in or around US installations while Trump is in office, but that's four more years only. No-one has a crystal ball, but if Putin thinks he can intimidate or bully a future president he will do so.
European nations have four years to use their vastly greater economic resources to re-arm to such an extent that Putin wouldn't even dare to look west.
I see it has beensteel will coming from Europe in the recent days. Also, that the UK/EU major countries are very much on the same paragraph of the same page.
Europe is horrified at the conduct of the US president. It is likely that it will never trust the US as it once did.
Post a Comment